For the February 2024 episode of the IGC podcast, we are joined by Jean-Pierre Reymond, Executive Director of 2050Today and Geneva-based Gender Champion, and Manisha Tirelli from Phenomenal Women Global. They discuss the urgency of including voices from all generations in climate action, reflect on the importance of women's equal representation in climate-related decision-making and highlight pathways for creating more inclusive policies and programmes.
TRANSCRIPT
Hannah Reinl
Hello and welcome to a new episode of the IGC podcast. My name is Hannah Reinl and I`m with the International Gender Champions Secretariat in Geneva.
Today, we're going to talk about how we can promote gender-responsive climate action and intergenerational climate justice. For that, I am joined by two great campaigners for this topic, Manisha Tirelli and Jean-Pierre Reymond. Manisha Tirelli is a research professional with Phenomenal Women Global on evolving themes of climate, gender, and justice. Being a strong advocate for women's and children's rights and with an academic background in geography, Manisha has worked at an urban food project in South Africa, with a vision of building resilient people and cities. She is also the founder of heART- that’s ART in capital letters- where she offers a rights-based learning programme for children and families, drawing from artistic land-based practices. Manisha is a parent, a poet and a children's book author with her children's literature featuring themes around belonging to Earth. Welcome to the IGC podcast, Manisha.
Manisha Tirelli
Hello Hannah.
Hannah Reinl
Our second guest is Jean-Pierre Reymond, Executive Director of 2050Today, and an International Gender Champion here in Geneva. Jean-Pierre is a Swiss career diplomat. In recent years, he has focused on innovative forms of fostering climate action and has been entrusted with developing a climate action initiative for International Geneva. He coordinated the initial phase of 2050Today and later became its director. As Ambassador for International Humanitarian Law, he previously chaired the intergovernmental process to strengthen respect for International Humanitarian Law in partnership with the International Committee of the Red Cross. He has held various diplomatic positions in Europe, Latin America, and the Middle East. Jean-Pierre also holds a master’s degree in Arabic, Egyptology, and Sanskrit. Very rich profiles that you both are bringing to this conversation today. A warm welcome to you as well, Jean-Pierre.
Jean-Pierre Reymond
Thank you, great pleasure to be with you.
Hannah Reinl
So, let's dive in. Next month, on the 15th of March, 2050Today and Phenomenal Women Global are organizing the event, 'Climate Voices: An Intergenerational Dialogue for Climate Justice'. We really look forward to the discussion on that day. But maybe you can already share with us how intergenerational climate action can effectively be integrated into policy-making, and how we can ensure that the voices and concerns of all generations are considered in the decision-making process.
Jean-Pierre Reymond
Yes, it's a great pleasure. Let me give you a few answers to this question. First of all, I believe, and we believe, having this event in a few weeks, that it is important to realize that we have a duty, at our age, at least in mine, to be responsible, and it is valid for everyone. We should realise that this planet, the earth we live on, is not some possession to us. It's not that we are the owners for the time being, we do whatever we want, and nobody cares about what will happen next. I mean, this is just a heritage we have, and we have to make sure that we give it back to the next generation intact.
So, how we act nowadays is not in line with what I just said. We act as if it's our possession, and we can extract as much as we want; there is no problem, we possess it, and it's a fundamental error. And as far as we don't realise, we are part of a much bigger ecosystem. Let's remember that we represent 0.01% of the biomass, which means we are very tiny on this planet. And it is not thanks to creation, to God, or whatever you believe in, that we are somehow slightly smarter than the other species that makes us believe that this is our own.
So, this intergenerational element is fundamental because we must realise that we somehow managed this planet pretty badly, let's be frank, for a short period of time. I mean, the next ones should be the next managers, and we cannot give them something that is a disaster and a failure, because, first of all, it's morally unacceptable. You cannot give back something much worse than what you received. Second, we create huge problems for generations to come because climate disruption is not something you can fix in weeks, days, or even years; it can go up for centuries. So, for sure, I will not be there. I don't know what the progress of science is; maybe we'll live much longer, but for centuries, let's be realistic, there is no way. So, this issue of intergenerational dialogue is fundamental, and we should plan for the next 50 years because whatever we decide today will have a very important impact on future generations.
Unfortunately, the political horizon relies on elections, and it's even worse when one is elected, and the other is not. This does not work because you cannot impact generations and then say, "I couldn't care less because my horizon is just to be reelected", no, it doesn't work. So, this aspect is extremely important, and I think everyone should act accordingly, at a personal level, but much more at a governmental level. We have to fundamentally change the patterns and not just have a plan for the next five years or the next three, but to focus on what would be the consequences of our choices today.
Hannah Reinl
That goes back to the famous saying that we do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, but that we actually borrow it from our children. Manisha, would you like to share some thoughts?
Manisha Tirelli
Yes, Hannah, and thank you, Jean-Pierre, for sharing. I totally agree with you. So globally, we need a paradigm shift. It is of the utmost importance to rethink systems based on intergenerational solidarity, and looking at present social issues is an integral part of intergenerational thinking. So, climate change makes all our social ills worse, like wars, poverty, racism, inequality, domestic violence, and healthcare gaps. Over the mid and the long term, climate, ill health, premature deaths, and poor mental health will significantly worsen; we know this. So, one of the many barriers we should consider for integrating intergenerational voices is mental health conditions.
Intervening to prevent and treat during adolescence or earlier can have lifelong health benefits, yet, independently from climate change, children are experiencing mental health impacts. For example, according to a 2022 study by Educational Research Services in Geneva Primary Schools, 4 out of 5 pupils indicated having been, at least once, a victim of discrimination. It was also noted in another article that girls tend to report more acts of discrimination.
So, coupled with recognized limited family support, gaps in school leadership, and training on power and privilege, fortified by research showing the differentiated impacts of climate change on certain minorities when they face discrimination, I'd like to pose the question, what then are the implications on intergenerational resilience and capacity to participate in climate action in addition to the social-cultural perceptions of their own power in climate action?
So, there are many ideas and suggestions I could make, but I would like to close on this very positive note: "The raindrops that glisten on the web, which can nourish and nurture our interconnectedness, is the bringing together of actors to respond appropriately". A possible vehicle and where Geneva already excels and is tapping into is the art-based learning community, which bridges practices to create access for youth and families to engage with their own creative power through rights, education, love, play and freedom. And by doing this, we speak directly to the transformative role of children's human rights in climate decision-making.
Hannah Reinl
Thank you, Manisha! And by touching on the questions of social and equities, you already perfectly laid the ground for my next question.
So, women, girls, and marginalized communities are known to disproportionately bear the negative impacts of climate change. On the other side, they remain significantly underrepresented in policy and decision-making. Both in your personal and professional capacity, you both call for gender equity and negotiations and policy-making spaces. So, in your view, what are some key actions that can help us close the gap?
Manisha Tirelli
While facing important barriers, women's participation in policy-making, including young women, has the potential to bring more knowledge, diversity, and equity to the negotiation table and contribute to the needed advancements and commitment to the climate agenda. Their effective participation in top-down and bottom-up processes is important to ensure the legitimacy and inclusiveness of the decision-making process and the design of socially- just adaptation and mitigation actions. So, locally, if we are looking at implementing a gender-responsive approach, the first step is to identify through context-specific assessment, the particular vulnerabilities women and girls face as a consequence of climate change.
As you refer to in your question, Hannah, 80% of people displaced by climate change are women, which exacerbates their risk of violence, including sexual violence. So, for example, when building crisis centres for women, if there is no lighting near the toilets, women have a fear due to possible violations. So globally, there's a need for gender-responsive international humanitarian action and aid. Prioritising the allocation of funds to projects that enhance gender equality and women's empowerment, investing in women's skills, and directly providing to women-led adaptation projects are some of the ways this can be achieved. Phenomenal Women Global's mission is to advance, connect, and empower women with leadership skills to lead in the decisions that affect them. Phenomenal Women Global creates spaces to advance an agenda through knowing the basic rights and norms in a situation.
Hannah Reinl
Thank you, Manisha. What about you, Jean-Pierre?
Jean-Pierre Reymond
First of all, I couldn't agree more with what Manisha said, but the question is quite different for me. I think all the ones who care about gender balance, and gender equality have more or less the same opinions as what Manisha just mentioned. But how do we translate it into reality? Because this discourse started quite a long time ago. I mean, as you remember, we had the Beijing Conference on advancing women and so on, and it's now more than 20 years. Did we make strong progress on it? I would not be pessimistic, but I cannot say that I'm overwhelmed by the progress we have made. So, in my view I think we should act and make a visible change, where you can have a sense that something has changed. As a Gender Champion, I have proposed an initiative that is somehow pretty simple, but on the other side, it will make the political reality quite obvious, that is, whether we are in favour of change or not, and my proposal is just to make a simple change. We have had COP, and over the last 28 COPs on climate change, we have had just 5 women in charge of the Presidency, that is 5 out of 28 and with this by definition, it's not quite sophisticated. It is not gender balance at all.
In my view, a simple proposal would be that since climate disruption is a major threat to our human species. It's quite obvious that there has to be gender balance because not only are we half-and-half on this planet, but, as Manisha highlighted, women and vulnerable people are disproportionately affected by this.
As you know, climate disruption worsens everything, including what was already bad, it exacerbates everything that is already going wrong. One way to address this problem is to say, let's have at least an alternating COP Presidency. One may say it is symbolic, but symbols matter sometimes. It's pretty simple, one year, we have a woman, the next year, we have a man, and it is hard to believe there is no suitable woman or man for this in any country. It's quite simple and basic, but this will cause a change and send a powerful message that a woman should be at the top of the table, and the next person can be a man. I'm convinced that changes can happen when you have this tipping point where everyone can see a difference. When you have a woman as a president in a country, it causes real change because later, you will have hundreds, and thousands of young girls saying, "Wow, I can also be at the top". So, in my view, this can be another.
Secondly, it is extremely important to realise that to improve, we must stop what is so detrimental to all of us, I mean, conflicts. It is just nonsense to have conflicts in the 21st century in the magnitude we have now. There is one in Europe and one in the Middle East, that can cause fire in the whole region. We have to realise that the time of conflict is over, we said already in the United Nations Charter that we will never put onto the next generation the scourge of war, and did we do it? No. So now it's time to make this switch and realise that war is not just inevitable because it's part of our history, no, it is unfortunately usually created by men. Also, to improve women's situation dramatically, men should stop making war with each other, this is fundamental.
Hannah Reinl
So, we have not one but two calls for action from Jean-Pierre. Apart from that, what do you believe senior leaders such as our community of Gender Champions can do to promote more inclusive climate actions? Are there any recommendations or additional pieces of advice that you'd like to share?
Jean-Pierre Reymond
In my view, it is pretty important to act with a gender-based approach in everything you do, to always have it in mind, to question whether whatever is decided, and organised is gender-based and to ask if there is a right balance. Again, it's not only for gender, but it should also be intergenerational, geographical (between the developed and the least developed countries), and to always have in mind that whatever is done should be representative of the whole. This is because, quite often, we have pretty narrow views as diplomats, we defend the national interest because it is our duty, but we must also keep in mind that if the system is going to work, you cannot just think about your narrow national interest. You must think about the whole, because if you win on one side and lose on the other, you might think it is great and good for your nation, but in the end, everybody will lose. So, we have to find a balance where we can. I'm not going to say "satisfy" because this will be just too big, but at least to find an equilibrium, a balance that is valid for everyone, be it for gender, social justice, and so on.
And once again, I think that with climate disruption, this is more fundamental than ever, it's not just a distraction. It shouldn't just be a scheduled Friday afternoon conversation right before the weekend, no, it should be fundamental. So, we need a fundamental change in our approach at the international level and to consider that we are a big family. Like everyone's family, you may not like your family, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because that is the family you have. One might choose to have different neighbours, but it doesn't change the reality. So, as you have in your family, brothers, sisters, cousins and so on, maybe you cannot love all of them the way, but you know, it's part of your family, and you have to accommodate the different situations.
In my view, we must change this approach, and as Gender Champions, we should call for a more gender-representative way of acting. Since most of the Gender Champions are at the senior level, they can make a difference. So, if we can have this different approach and always consider that, although we are a very large group, there is only one group on this planet. We may have different nations, maybe different interests, but at the end of the day, we should find a way to live together peacefully, and this is fundamental. That's why I think a change in the COP Presidency can make a difference. We also need to act to end conflicts, and to not consider conflicts as something that is inevitable and we must deal with it, no, we have to stop it.
Hannah Reinl
What you're saying brings us back to the paradigm shift Manisha called for at the beginning of this episode. Manisha, is there something that you would like to add?
Manisha Tirelli
Yes, thank you, Hannah, and thank you, Jean Pierre. I think you've raised essential points to ensure that there is half-and-half representation in all forums. I suppose the approach and thoughts I’m bringing to the table is, how do we equip women to take those positions and carry them forward to create the future that we all envision?
So, what I would encourage Champions to do, is to engage more with the voices of diverse women and empower them with the resources to put into action their visions of integrated systems for all our future, as well as post-engagement relationship building.
So, to hone it down to the local level, evidence in Fiji shows that owing to the role of women as primary caregivers, they play a key part in shaping the values of children on climate change adaptation. Moreover, the knowledge women acquire on sustainable resource use and management will likely be passed on to children and thus be applied in the longer term. Whatever those values are, they can include conflict resolution, peacebuilding, non-violent communication, and not only those items specific to climate issues. As you've pointed out, Jean-Pierre, they are very important and related too.
So, it was recently published that Geneva will not meet its intended 2050 targets and has suggested accessing the laboratory of new narratives. This aims to propose playful and diverse campaigns to promote artistic expression and to reimagine a supported Geneva society, focusing on integrating social justice issues. So, locally and community-based resilience and adaptation actions carried out by women's groups is an example of how implementation can increase the participation of multi-generational voices.
Collating information on the needs and gaps and crafting community-based gender-responsive adaptation actions that aim to increase resilience and adaptive capacity while empowering women and ensuring they adequately participate in the programmes.
Hannah Reinl
Manisha, Jean-Pierre, thank you so much for joining us today and for helping us make sense of this very important topic. Thank you.
Jean-Pierre Reymond
Thank you, our pleasure.
Manisha Tirelli
Thank you, Hannah, and thank you, Jean-Pierre