For the September 2024 episode of the IGC podcast, we collaborated with the Mobilising Men for Feminist Peace podcast of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (WILPF). This in-depth podcast - which is also available in three parts - zooms in on the need to address militarised masculinities in working towards feminist peace. Featuring four global experts and leaders, the podcast explores how militarised masculinities are constructed, discusses the dangers of gender-exploitative marketing of weapons, and investigates the links between small arms proliferation and violent masculinities, and the entertainment industry.
Guests:
- Madeleine Rees, former Secretary-General of WILPF
- Reem Abbas, feminist activist, researcher and writer and Communications Coordinator at WILPF's Mobilising Men for Feminist Peace programme
- Nicole Hockley, co-founder and co-CEO of Sandy Hook Promise
- Dean Peacock, Director of WILPF's Mobilising Men for Feminist Peace programme
TRANSCRIPT
PART 1
Hannah Reinl
Hello and welcome to a new episode of the IGC podcast. My name is Hannah Reinl, and I’m with the International Gender Champions Secretariat in Geneva.
Today, we are zooming in on militarised masculinities and how we can mobilise men for feminist peace. This topic is a big one- so in an attempt to do justice to the complexity of the questions we will discuss and the different factors that are at play here- we have decided to go with a slightly different episode format than usual. Over the next hour, you will be hearing from four different experts. Each of them will spotlight a new dimension of the topic, and help us connect the dots.
Here to make sure we take off properly are Madeleine Rees and Reem Abbas from the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom (WILPF).
Madeleine Rees is one of our Geneva-based Gender Champions. She is a British lawyer and Secretary-General of WILPF since 2010. For most of her career, Madeleine has worked nationally and internationally to advance human rights, eliminate discrimination, and remove obstacles to justice. In addition to her work specialising in discrimination law with a major firm in the United Kingdom, she has also held various roles with the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR).
That includes her time as Head of the OHCHR in Bosnia and Herzegovina, where she helped expose human rights abuses and the involvement of UN peacekeepers in sex trafficking. As Secretary-General of WILPF, Madeleine has been leading the organisation’s efforts to work through national and international legal frameworks to advance a future of human security and justice for all. I think everyone who has met Madeleine in person knows that she is a force for change. She is passionate about connecting women across borders to share experiences and organise for action, and committed to building a true global movement for feminist peace. In 2014, Madeleine was awarded the OBE – the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire- for her services to human rights, particularly women’s rights and international peace and security.
Welcome to the IGC podcast, Madeleine!
Madeleine Rees
Thank you so much, Hannah. What a lovely introduction. Thank you.
Hannah Reinl
And our second guest is Reem Abbas, a Feminist activist, researcher and writer. Her book " (Un)doing resistance: authoritarianism and attacks on the arts in Sudan's 30 years of Islamist rule" was published last year. As a researcher, she has conducted research on the women's movement in Sudan and issues related to peace and security with Safer world, US Institute of Peace, the African Women's Development Fund, Defend Defenders, Interpares and other entities.
Reem is a former Non-resident Fellow at Tahrir Institute on Middle East Policy focusing on land, conflict, and resources in Sudan and a former member in the coordination committee of Sudanese Women in Civic and Political Groups. She is now a communications coordinator at WILPF where she co-hosts the Mobilising Men for Feminist Peace (MMFP) podcast – which I highly recommend by the way- and works on many cross-cutting programme components.
Reem, welcome to you as well! How does it feel to be sitting on the other side of a podcast production?
Madeleine and Reem laugh
Reem Abbas
Thank you. Thank you, Hannah. I mean, I've always thought of myself as a writer more than a speaker, so it's definitely a challenge that I really, really love.
Hannah Reinl
Well, we're glad you're joining us for this challenge. So in today's podcast episode, we are focusing on the construction of “militarised masculinities”. Can you start us off by explaining what that term actually means?
Reem Abbas
Absolutely, yes. So, you know, just WILPF has been working on conflict for a very long time and in many parts of conflict, you know, through the human rights programmes, through the women, peace and security programmes, through many programmes. So, when we first started working on, you know, mobilising men for feminist peace, we were trying to understand: what are the drivers of this conflict? What are the drivers of violence in many countries?
And one of the things that was noticed is that many communities around the world are becoming militarised, you know, through many things. And we can talk about it, of course, later when we talk about how weapons are marketed. But also that there is militarised masculinities, you know. And a lot of people have heard of the term “toxic masculinity”, you know, and it has become very popular because of the #MeToo movement. But militarised masculinities are the masculinities that are turned into, you know, forces for violence, for misogyny, for, you know, for all kinds of abuses. And we see this a lot in countries where you have, you know, chronic conflicts. And in countries where you have, you know, just a lot of violence.
There is a very nice definition that we always like to use by, you know, Kimberly Theidon, which is “the concept of militarised masculinity captures the fusion of certain practices and images of maleness with the use of weapons, the exercise of violence, and the performance of an aggressive and frequently misogynist masculinity”. One of the stories that I really like to highlight is that militarised masculinities are evolving, so they're very much inspired and agitated by things such as social norms, by governance. Militarised masculinities are very influenced by how the government, you know, abuses the population and especially men, you know, degrading them, taking their land, you know, suppressing them and their opinions. So, so many economic practices that are influenced by the, you know, capitalist system. So it is a an evolving masculinity that is very much at the heart of why the wars and the conflicts continue in many parts of the world.
Madeleine Rees
Perhaps I could just jump in, Hannah, and add to that because of course I agree very much with Reem’s very excellent presentation of what we mean by that. But it also shows that the systems we've got at the moment of economic exploitation, which is protected by militarism, both, as WILPF has been saying for over 100 years, feeding off each other. And it requires a particular form of masculinity, and indeed a particular sort of female response to that, in order to retain the structures within which this works. We call it patriarchy, the shorthand. And what Reem was saying as well, it all shows about the plasticity of the brain and how we can, through our systems and structures, actually create a way of being which has a tendency towards violence, but it also shows we could undo that as well. And that's why we are focusing on looking at just how these identities come into being and what we can do then to address them and create a new narrative.
Hannah Reinl
And that's something that I've personally always admired about the work that WILPF does, which is really highlighting the linkages between patriarchy and capitalism and how they evolve together and interact to shape each other. That's something that I feel is not necessarily dominant in the current discourse that we have when we're discussing gender roles and norms, and yet such an important part of the conversation.
Madeleine Rees
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Hannah Reinl
So addressing the militarised masculinities that you just so perfectly explained is at the core of the initiative that WILPF has created and which we've mentioned before, that's called “mobilising men for feminist peace”. So again, maybe just to make sure we're talking about the same terms and are getting on the same page here, what do you understand under the concept of a feminist peace, and maybe also why is it so important that we engage men in this work?
Madeleine Rees
Well, it's actually quite simple: It's the opposite of what we've got now, really, because essentially what feminism is all about - in its multiplicity of different interpretations it does end up with one thing, and that is about equality and the absolute need for equalities in an intersectional way. And so it's the absence of that equality which leads to conflict, which leads to violent conflict. And gender relations as the great Cynthia Cockburn always portrayed it, gender relations are causal. And if gender relations are causal, then we have to address what we mean in terms of mobilising everyone to achieve a peace which is both just, egalitarian and actually will address the underlying causes of violence. And that's what feminism does.
And so we started this initiative in in 2015 at our 100th, we launched it at our 100th anniversary. With a manifesto, in fact, which actually addressed the absolute need of engaging with men. Because, you know, I keep saying I'm one of those people who for 60 years have been ranting about what is wrong with men and what are we gonna do to change them. But in fact, it's a more difficult argument than that because it is not just about men, it's about all of us, in all our different identities, in all the ways in which we express those identities. And you know, it's inherently linked and totally the product of our structures, our cultures and our social in the way in which we have integrated, you know, with the way in which our social relations actually push us into a particular type of identity. And I think, you know, what we're saying is: Let's perhaps even dump the idea of labelling a masculinity as being a particular type of one thing or the other, because we're all different at all different times. And I think the most important thing about this is we want everyone to be working towards a feminist peace. And that obviously means men as well. And so clearly, this is our obligation if we want to change the world and have peace, we've all got to do it and we've got to do it together.
Hannah Reinl
I'm noting the strategic use of the plural in all that you're saying- identities, equalities, masculinities. There's no such thing as one static kind of gender role or the expectations that we attach to it. It's all extremely fluid, of course, and constantly in shift and extremely context-specific.
Madeleine Rees
No, exactly. And I think the important thing we've got to really move away from the binaries to put another S on it. It's not just one binary notion of gender either, it's there are binaries in everything we do, which pits one thing against another. We have to be more intelligent in our understanding of the intricacies of different identities and issues and how we can actually navigate towards a pattern of change.
Hannah Reinl
Doesn't take away from the complexity, but definitely feels like the right way to go.
Madeleine Rees
Laughs
Very complex, but much needed.
Hannah Reinl
Reem, would you like to add to this?
Reem Abbas
I do actually and I want to just start out by saying that, you know, because violence is very much gendered, right. You know, violent masculinities shape institutions, intimate lives and our communities. And we also want to think of peace as, you know, as gendered. And this is why when we talk about feminist peace, we're trying to say that, you know, usually there's a lot of talk about women being at the table at peace talks, right? But this doesn't really change the process by which peace happens. It's, you know, the feminist, kind of no, sorry, the liberal, you know, peace-making mechanism where you have women stuck in the track 2 system and there's the track system that kind of makes sure that women are not part of the important meetings and that they're not shaping the peace and they're not contributing to it and that the peace process itself is not based on, you know, the lived experiences of women. And it should be. Because they're the ones that are really affected by the wars. And they're the ones that understand the better solutions.
There's an example that I really like to give, and it's relevant to Sudan, where I'm from. There we had these peace talks focused on the Darfur region. And so, in Sudan, women are the ones that fetch the water. So the men were basically having this discussion about this river, you know, and they were arguing about it. And then the women kind of stepped in and said, but it has dried up. And it really shows, you know, the men had no idea, because, of course they're not the ones that go to fetch the water. And they were trying to kind of, you know, like, yeah, they were basically arguing about this. And so having women really shape, you know how the peace is and based on their lived experiences, everyday experiences just struggling, you know, for the sake of their communities is really very important, you know. And to do this, of course, we have to also - and this is why a lot of the work with men- because it's important to have allies. And there are great allies, you know. We have allies in Afghanistan, for example, and most people don't think of, you know, Afghanistan as a country where you have allies. But no, we have, you know, I think about 1/3 of the members of WILPF in Afghanistan are men and we have a lot of allies who have been critical. And still, until today, they're, you know, helping girls access education. So once you start, you know, start this process, you really just discover that there's a lot of hope, a lot of potential and a lot of conversations that can really change how we understand peace and that can really change the intimate lives of people, you know, and in the communities we work with.
Hannah Reinl
That was a great example. I'm curious to hear a bit more about how you're implementing the objectives of these initiatives that you just lined out so nicely in practice. Maybe if each of you could share a story, and potentially a success story or also a challenge that you've encountered, in kind of putting the objectives of this mobilising men for feminist peace - initiative, into action on the ground.
Reem Abbas
So many examples, I mean there are two that I want to share. So the project of course works in a number of countries, you know, right now the focus is on, you know, six countries. Yemen, the DRC, Colombia, Afghanistan, Cameroon, also Nigeria. So in Cameroon, there was a very interesting example and this is something that you could see in the “Power Patrol” film that we have- so we have an hour-long documentary on our website and it highlights the role of the male allies basically. So basically engaging with traditional leaders, you know, and this is something that people are usually scared to do because when you talk about, you know, peace and you talk about feminism, so generally the attitude is to engage with younger, you know, men only. Thinking that, you know, you have a way to kind of maneuver and have a conversation, but with the more traditional leaders, there is this understanding that they're very much benefiting from this patriarchal system, that they are using, of course, to also subjugate their communities so they can keep their power as traditional leaders. And it is true to a lot of extent, but also they have a lot of power. And they keep the system in place. So engaging with them is a way to kind of challenge, you know, the system.
So there is an engagement with a number of traditional leaders in Cameroon. And so far they have shown a lot of, you know, flexibility and they have been having great conversations, you know, with our partner there and they have been really just also, you know, very much interested in being a force for peace and a force for change. And this is in a country that right now has active conflict. So, this is an example that really shows that engaging with traditional, you know, tribal and native administration leaders is very important and it works and they could become forces for change.
The second thing is, and I think this is also a very interesting thing with where we've organised a community of practice that came together very organically of just like-minded organisations and people, who all believe in the power of mobilising men for feminist peace and how it's critical to do that. And it's one of the very important mechanisms for, you know, peace building in general and of sustainable peace. So this community of practice, you know, we've assembled it. Right now we have a lot of ideas and things we want to do. But I think getting people that share this idea in one place and then using this as a force for advocacy and research and different ideas -and a lot of ideas are coming out of it - is for us a very important success story and it really shows that the work that we're doing is going to move forward and will continue to happen because this is a long term intervention. Because we're trying to influence attitudes and we're trying to influence social norms and so on.
Madeleine Rees
Can I just jump in on that? Because I think it's really important that what Reem just emphasised: it's a long term project. Because one of the things I think we've seen over and over again is that men are very reticent about engaging towards something which is called a “feminist peace” because of the stereotypes of what a man should be and who he should be. And so, whilst probably the majority are actually in solidarity and support, the message that comes out across the media and we'll go on to talk about this in relation to weapons and arms shortly, but is very much the creation of industry. You know it's very difficult to be an ally and I mean that in the broadest terms, for feminism, for men, because then they are feminized by others. And I think that fear is something we really need to overcome. And the way in which we're doing it is by bringing people together. And to show, men showing to each other, that they are actually the majority and can be part of this massive transformation that's needed. But it's and no one's saying it's easy and I'm really impressed by the fact that they're getting to religious and elder leaders is a way. And exactly as it was in Afghanistan, where Jamila Afghani, she spoke with religious leaders, the Mullahs, in order to persuade them as to how the Quran should be interpreted so that it actually was pro women's rights, which it is. And when she convinced them, they brought others into the fold. And that's how come we've got more than 30% of our 10,000 membership in Afghanistan is men.
Hannah Reinl
So, Madeleine, you offered the perfect segue for me when you started talking about the creation of an industry that you're basically up against. So WILPF, alongside other partners, has just organised a three-day conference on “Militainment, the arms industry and the marketing of militarised masculinities”. For me, before I attended the conference, all of these terms were quite new. So for the non-experts among us, would you maybe like to explain to us how these different topics are connected?
Madeleine Rees
Reem, after you.
Reem Abbas
Yeah, sure. So basically the way war is marketed, you know, and war and weapons are marketed, it happens through many things. Militainment is only one of them. So Militainment is basically a term that brings together, you know, the military and entertainment. So basically using the entertainment industry, films, you know, TV shows that we're seeing to kind of market war and weapons. But also this is happening through social media. It's happening through video games. It's happening through so many different platforms. And just to give you an example, there are a lot of films that we watch and we don't even realize that they are actually manipulated. You know, that they are actually, that they were scripted and even produced, you know, and supported by the military, you know. So the military has been doing hundreds of films like in the US for example, Hollywood is a perfect example, where they, you know, tailor the scripting, they work with the producers and they fund the film through giving them access to different, you know, guns and weapons and planes and so on. And this is all because they want to use the film to basically communicate a certain message to the audience. And they use films and things like that as tools to encourage, you know, young men to join the army and/or to really push, you know, different agendas and so on.
So and video games are also something that, you know, we don't really think much about, but it's something that is played by, you know, over a billion people around the world and video games are sometimes even also supported by the military. They're used for recruitment, and sometimes they're used for spreading propaganda. Just like right now for example, what you know, the Russian military is doing in in regards, to when we talk about the war in Ukraine. So basically, our understanding is that if we do want peace, if we do want to also look at militarised masculinities, we have to look at all the tools and things that kind of support, you know, in cementing militarised masculinities and that are supporting into making war, you know something t that is sold basically to us, you know, as something that is good or as something that is profitable or as something that is sometimes necessary.
So coming together in this meeting that had so many different experts and people from all over the world, we had, you know, great conversations. And some of the conversations were about, you know, the industries, you know, the film industry, the video games and also social media, how right now there are people who are gun influencers, for example, they're influencers that are selling US weapons and guns. And how the gun lobby is so powerful, so powerful in making sure that the gun laws remain so lax in different parts of the world and so powerful in the fact that they do advocacy to make sure that you know that guns remain, you know, that they're less restrictions on gun advertising and so on. And how they always find ways, through social media and through different people, to market weapons to us, you know. And not only market them but market them as something that makes you a real man, that makes you a strong man, that makes you a man, that is wanted by women. So this was a great, you know, start and a great meeting that is going to result in more research for us and more advocacy and more networking.
Madeleine Rees
Yeah, I've got to say, that I'm still in a state of shock after that conference. I thought I knew it. You know, I thought I knew what was going on, particularly in America. But my God, how naive I was. The conference was really centered, I think, that was the information coming from everyone is we need to look at the how cultures are created and we need law to regulate the way in which we conduct ourselves. And yet in America, and I'm definitely picking on America here because it's there where the lack of legal regulation is just absolutely absurd. It's also in part because they've been able to create this culture where owning a gun is a right. And it's not just for your own protection. If you think the sorts of weapons they have now legitimized, it's incredibly easy to get one. It is all about creating a culture of fear. Everybody is afraid. So everybody has to have a gun. And the way they target the individual groups about their own insecurity, so they will sell, they'll market, particular weapons to the black community, for example. They're now pitching particular ones to the LGBTQ..what? And they've got lovely pink ones for women on international women’s day. Insane. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. But it's all based on the creation of a fear of the others, which makes it very likely that weapons will be used and they are.
If you look at the number of gun related deaths, it's the biggest single killer of children in America. Now how come that is not something which is front and centre of their election campaign? But of course it's not because the gun lobby is so huge. And then not only that, they're producing all these horrific weapons, but they're dumping them in Central America and and in the Caribbean, where they're used for, you know, guns used in in gangs and in the supply of drugs, the drug cartels, et cetera. And then they get those countries get demonized by America because of the refugee flows which arise as a direct result of the dumping of guns. In those countries. Even though the countries themselves can have very strong anti-arms regulation. So you know it's a real cancer at the heart of the United States and they are not addressing it. On the contrary. And then we say what has to go into maintaining that is really quite, I think it's acutely dangerous because it shows that there is an intention, an intention, on gendered grounds, on racial grounds, to create a climate in which violence is inevitable and for profit, solely for profit. And that really is punishable.
Reem Abbas
Yeah. And just to reiterate, we're just kind of taking in all the information you know. So we're also, you know, figuring things out and understanding because it was very shocking to hear all the, I would say, testimonies from some of the experts, you know, and the research that they have conducted. So definitely stay tuned for our blogs and our material we're going to produce on this.
Hannah Reinl
Yes, so watch this space, everyone. And we will make sure to share that of course. And everything you just said really brings us full circle to the beginning of this conversation, right, that it's really also the economic interest that drives the construction of militarised masculinities and that serves the profit ultimately. So I want to go on forever. I don't want this conversation to end. Unfortunately, in the interest of time, we have to and we will be hearing more on each of these topics also from the other two experts that we invited for Part 2 and 3 of this podcast episode, but Madeleine, Reem, before I let you go, I'd love to hear from you if you have any recommendations that you would like to share with the Gender Champions of our networks, possibly other listeners as well, should they want to educate themselves further, or even take action.
Madeleine Rees
Simple one: I think in a lot of Gender Champions are in very senior positions. I mean they're all heads of various agencies and diplomats, what have you. And I think it is vitally important that everything they do and don't just make one pledge, you're going to do one thing, make it your job, make it an integrated part of your mandate to make sure that you are looking at all the issues you're expected to address from a gender perspective, to see how we get towards equality and peace. If you don't do that, then you're not being a Champion. So do that. Just do that and we will have a transformative system.
Reem Abbas
Exactly. Yeah, they should be able to influence, and they should also just stay up to date with all the research and the information that is coming out. You know, we have great resources on our website. We have the knowledge hub and we also produced a lot of research through this project and so they should also, you know, make an effort, you know, to understand what are the issues that we're talking about. You know, make time to attend some of the meetings and the workshops that we hold and always reach out, I think reaching out and having conversations and asking us like what should we advocate for, what should we talk about, you know, what should we push for? I think reaching out, having conversations is very important.
Hannah Reinl
So a little bit of homework for everyone. Madeleine, Reem, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and for really helping us get a bigger picture.
Madeleine Rees
Great. Thanks, Hannah.
Reem Abbas
Thank you
Hannah Reinl
You just heard from Madeleine Rees and Reem Abbas of the Women’s International League of Peace and Freedom. In part 2 of this podcast episode, we will meet Nicole Hockley of Sandy Hook Promise Foundation and learn about her successful litigation against the gender-exploitative marketing practices of a US-based gun manufacturer.
PART 2
Hannah Reinl
In the introductory part of this podcast episode, we learned more about militarised masculinities and the importance of involving men in the feminist peace movement. With that for context, let’s now take a closer look at how militarized masculinities are constructed, and the role that the private sector, the entertainment industry and the media play in this. Specifically, we will zoom in on the danger of gendered marketing practices that actively link masculinity with gun ownership- and we will discuss what can be done to prevent such practices.
Here to talk to me about this topic is Nicole Hockley. Welcome to the IGC Podcast, Nicole.
Nicole Hockley
Thank you for having me!
Hannah Reinl
Thank you for joining us. So, Nicole you’re the co-founder and co-CEO of Sandy Hook Promise, where you work every day to protect children from gun and school violence. After your youngest son, Dylan, was murdered in his first-grade classroom during the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in 2012, you chose to turn unspeakable tragedy into transformation. Under your leadership, the research-driven Know The Signs violence prevention programmes were created and they are now available to schools at no cost. More than 23 million people have participated in these life-saving programmes, resulting in the prevention of countless acts of violence and at least 16 planned school attacks.
So please tell us more about the mission and the work of Sandy Hook Promise Foundation.
Nicole Hockley
Absolutely, thank you. Well, at Sandy Hook Promise we are dedicated to keeping young people safe because that is absolutely what they deserve. So we're on a mission to end school shootings and all forms of violence against youth in their homes, schools and communities. And we do this by teaching them how to recognize when someone might be going into crisis and take an intervention or even just how to create more inclusive communities where we look out for each other and help each other, because we all have moments of being alone or moments of feeling excluded, or moments where we don't know quite what to do. And by working together we believe that young people can be empowered to really create the safer future that America needs.
Hannah Reinl
I already alluded to this in the brief introduction, we really want to discuss gender-exploitative marketing practices with you. And you are the person who, in a historic lawsuit, successfully took on Remington, the manufacturer of the AR-15 rifle that was used in the Sandy Hook shooting. To provide some context for our listeners: Before your landmark win, it was considered virtually impossible in the US to hold gun manufacturers accountable if their weapons were used to commit crimes. And that was due to a federal law called “the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act” , or in short PLACA, which is protecting gun manufacturers from liability. With your lawsuit you found a way around PLACA through Connecticut consumer law, claiming that the company had engaged in deceptive and gender-exploitative marketing practices, which linked gun ownership to heroism and masculinity. Can you walk us through the arguments and evidence that you centred when making your case?
Nicole Hockley
Sure. And it's funny because I had gone originally to several different large law firms in the US and everyone cited PLACA as you mentioned and just said this is an unwinnable case. The gun manufacturing industry is immune from liability, and really it's the only industry in America that is immune from liability and obviously in America we have an issue in terms of mass shootings and mass violence. But I found this lawyer who said, you know, this is a righteous cause. We need to do something. And then my Co-founder and Co- CEO of Sandy Hook, Mark Barden and his wife, Jackie, found one of Remington's ads and we brought that to the lawyer and this was an ad specifically called “Get Your Man Card”. And it was a campaign that was centred around the idea of “you need to have an AR15 to be considered a man”, and that if you bought your AR15 from Remington they would send you this man card. And they also had legs on that campaign such as “Jeffrey is a crier”. So basically saying “your friend Jeffrey likes watching romantic comedies”. “Your friend Jeffrey cries”, “help him become a man, a real man, by registering him to buy an AR15”. And we just felt this was egregious and we used that as the basis for our lawsuit and really finding this small niche of opportunity with Connecticut law on unfair trade practices to help blow up this idea of PLACA and immunity by saying just because you are immune to liability doesn't mean you can be reckless. Doesn't mean you can use dangerous marketing to target young, vulnerable minds, particularly males. And the more that we got in terms of the discovery from the case and then I've seen what has happened in the last 10 years since the Sandy Hook tragedy and what sort of marketing is happening in terms of firearm manufacturing and continuing to say “you need to be a man to do this”, “you need to have a gun to be a man”. “You need to have a gun to be sexy”. “You need to have a gun to be powerful”. These are egregious and insidious and are targeting young men and promoting acts of violence with weapons. And that is what we are changing with this lawsuit and the work beyond it.
Hannah Reinl
So do you feel like the successful litigation against Remington set a precedent for holding firearm manufacturers accountable and possibly also influencing governmental regulation around this topic.
Nicole Hockley
Absolutely. Because until this point, everyone said it was impossible. So we proved not only is it possible, but you just have to be a little bit more creative and thoughtful and now there is a high volume of lawsuits against firearm manufacturers to ensure accountability. And some of these are incredibly creative lawsuits. Even lawsuits from other countries who are saying, you are trafficking your guns to our country, such as Mexico, and we're having gun violence as a result of you sending your guns here. So there's a lot of new ways to ensure accountability. And it's not about stopping manufacturers from making guns. It's about changing the way that they sell them and the way that they market them. And we are working very heavily now on inviting gun manufacturers to do the right thing and change their practices and certainly not target children and certainly not use images of, you know, masculinity or overpowering as a way to sell their weapons. But we're also working with different elements of government around regulations on how can we do this. Because you can't advertise everything in an unregulated way. There has to be some regulations around that. So we're working on that and it's going to be a long process, but we are absolutely optimistic that we will make this change happen.
Hannah Reinl
So clearly a promising trend already. As you know, we are working with international leaders, decision-makers and policy-makers at the International Gender Champions. So would you want listeners, such as our International Gender Champions, to take away from your story, and do you have any suggestions for concrete actions that leaders within the multilateral sphere can take forward and implement?
Nicole Hockley
Yes. Well the issue that we're dealing here in terms of overly, you know, toxic masculinity and advertising for firearms, this is directly linked to gender-based violence. We see, you know, men, young men shooting up women who won't date them, who schools where they felt that they were excluded or not, dealt with properly. There's a lot. It's very much based in our social and gendered norms that we have specifically intersecting with firearm violence here in the US. And I think that actions that leaders can take is be aware of this and use your voice to stop this. This is a uniquely American problem in a lot of respects, but in terms of social media, influencers putting it out there, that has no country barrier. So that issue is global in terms of what is being put out there for young people. In terms of firearms or weapons make you more powerful, make you more of a man, make you sexy. So I think being aware of this, ensuring that there are adequate actions around how influencers can reach young people wherever you are, because this is teaching young minds pathways towards gender-based violence in the future. So it's really important to do this now, have a safety plan, advocate for appropriate legislation and regulation, especially with social media companies and firearm manufacturers, to ensure appropriate marketing and not dangerous and reckless behaviour.
Hannah Reinl
So I’m jotting down awareness, action and advocacy.
Nicole Hockley
Yes.
Hannah Reinl
Nicole, thank you so much for joining us today, for sharing your personal story and for letting us in on the important and urgent work that you do.
Nicole Hockley
Thank you.
Hannah Reinl
This was Nicole Hockley of Sandy Hook Promise Foundation. In the third and final part of this podcast, we will speak with masculinity expert Dean Peacock about the linkages between violent masculinities and small arms proliferation.
PART 3
Hannah Reinl
So far, we have learned why we need to involve men in feminist peace, which role gendered marketing plays in constructing militarised masculinities and what can be done to prevent such practices.
Now, we will be taking a closer look at the connection between small arms proliferation and violent masculinities. Here with us to help us map the problem- and to showcase possible solutions I hope- is Dean Peacock.
Dean is a true expert when it comes to engaging men for gender equality. He has founded and directed a number of high impact local, national, and global initiatives. He uses a combination of research, academic partnerships, strategic litigation, policy advocacy, and community mobilization to win changes in national laws in his home country South Africa and contribute to paradigmatic and programmatic changes within civil society, governments, the United Nations, and bilateral donors.
He is the co-founder and former Director of Sonke Gender Justice, a leading international gender equality NGO headquartered in South Africa and the co-founder and former global co-chair of the MenEngage Alliance, now active in over seventy countries. Dean is an Honorary Senior Lecturer in the Division for Social and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Cape Town’s School of Public Health, a Scholar in Residence at the Violence, Inequality and Power Lab at the University of San Diego’s Joan B. Kroc School of Peace Studies, and an Ashoka Changemaker Fellow. He has commissioned and coordinated many multi-partner research projects and has published widely and been profiled in many major news outlets, books and academic journals.
He is also the project director for the Mobilising Men for Feminist Peace Initiative, about which we’ve heard earlier.
That’s certainly quite the bio. I’ve personally been looking forward to bringing Dean onto the IGC podcast since I first learned about his work, so at last:
Welcome to the IGC podcast, Dean!
Dean Peacock
Hannah Reinl
So Dean, what do we mean when we talk about small arms and small arms proliferation?
Dean Peacock
Hannah, thanks so much. It's really an honour and a privilege to be here. The work that you all do with Gender Champions has been an inspiration to me for a very long time, and I'm delighted to share my insights with you and your listeners today. And I'm sorry you had to wade through that very long bio with all those treacherous names. But I'm delighted to be here and looking forward to the conversation.
Hannah Reinl
So am I. So let's start by getting some of the terminology right. What do we mean when we talk about small arms and small arms proliferation?
Dean Peacock
Great. And I'll start by saying I'm not an expert on small arms and light weapons. My work really has focused on men and masculinities and violence. And over the last decade, I've become increasingly aware of the marketing practices of the gun and arms industry. And so have done a lot of research recently to try and understand that and to think about how we might address it.
But to your question, smaller arms and light weapons. I think of small arms and light weapons in two ways. One, when we think about guns, whether that's handguns or semi-automatic weapons, automatic weapons, we can think about the small arms in that capacity, the light weapons or the heavier machine guns, grenade launchers, portable tank and air defence missiles and portable rocket launchers, sometimes they call them MANPADS, interestingly enough. So that's the sort of semi-technical definition- there is greater specificity for readers, for listeners who are interested in that. But I think that's probably good enough to start with.
Hannah Reinl
Always good to start with some conceptual clarity. So you just mentioned it and we also have heard before on this podcast about the dangerous marketing practices of gun manufacturers that link possession of weapons to masculinity. And we also know that individual gun ownership is overwhelmingly in male hands. So based on your research and your experience in this realm, what are the social structures, the gendered norms that are at play here?
Dean Peacock
Great. And I think it's a complex issue because in a lot of the literature and a lot of the research that's written on men, masculinities and guns, there's what I think is an accurate description that men often associate manhood with strength, aggression, the ability to dominate other people and unwillingness to compromise. And guns, of course, become an easy way to achieve those social expectations. Or at least that's the perception, and so there is, I think, a link between men and masculinities and guns. And I think we've seen that, right, like we've been socialized into that for a very long time by films that celebrate men and guns. And sometimes those films are about, kind of, ordinary civilians. Often they're about soldiers, vets and sometimes they are about civilians who used to be vets, I mean, sorry, who used to be soldiers like the famous Rambo films. But in all of those, the depiction is that a gun lends you a certain kind of toughness, a certain kind of manhood, really, and that, you know, no one messes with you if you've got a gun is the message, right? And so what I think has been underexplored a little bit is the ways in which the gun industry, together, often with the entertainment sector, film, television, video games, and increasingly online platforms, have shaped and exploited ideas about manhood and in fact changed them in significant ways over the last few decades. And so the classic American gun ad from the 1970s was not a man with a semi-automatic weapon, and tactical gear. It was in fact an image of a hunter, often a man and a son, so constructing a different vision of masculinity right. And this hyper-militarised idea of men and guns is a relatively recent phenomenon in terms of the specific advertising done by the gun industry. And so I think, you know, the point I'm trying to make here is there are two dimensions to it. I think there are these ideas of men being protectors and providers that align easily with assumptions we make about guns. And on the flip side, there is a way in which the gun industry has manufactured ideas about manhood and that has, I don't think, received sufficient attention. It's the kind of deliberate exploitation by the gun and arms industry of ideas of manhood to sell their products. And we'll get into the details about that, I'm sure, in this discussion, but a lot of it is very insidious and I think we've allowed the gun industry, the arms industry and the entertainment sector to do this without much scrutiny and without much accountability.
Hannah Reinl
So of course this is not something that only plays out on a TV screen or computer screen, but that has very real consequences for our society. How do you see the connection between these constructions of violent masculinities and gun ownership play out in real life? And what's the scale of the problem that you're talking about?
Dean Peacock
Yeah, it's a massive problem, right. So if we think about civilian deaths as a result of gun violence, it's, you know, it's huge. Nearly half a million people die each year in homicides, and more than half of them, about 55%, according to the Small Arms survey, are deaths that occur with a gun. And so it's a massive problem, and it's gendered in predictable ways. So men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators and the victims of gun-related homicides.
But of course, guns are also associated with men's violence against women. We've seen a number of examples recently where men have used guns to perpetrate hate crime massacres. And so guns have been used in predictably gendered ways, you know, amongst men and in parts of the world, Latin America and the city in which I live, Cape Town, the rates of homicide of young men are off the charts. In some of the areas not too far from where I live, men are about 40 times more likely to be killed than women are, but the violence against women takes, of course, a different form, which is in the form of sexual violence, domestic violence and femicide. So guns increase the lethality of any conflict and are a major, major, major problem when it comes to morbidity and mortality. And it's of course not just the deaths, right? It's the fear that guns generate the trauma that they caused to people who are exposed to gun violence or who grieve the loss of friends and family members. And so the cumulative effect of gun violence is enormous, and I think is increasingly being identified as a commercial driver of violence that demands our urgent attention.
Hannah Reinl
Certainly. I feel like in recent years there's also been a growing sense of apprehension about the role of digital platforms and digital communities and the role that they play in reinforcing violent masculinities and possibly extremist ideologies. Is that a concern that you share?
Dean Peacock
It's a huge concern. And it's a concern that I think has emerged recently, for many people, I think it was kind of, you know, below the radar for a long time. I think in many conversations I've had with people about marketing of guns and people have said, well, you know, gun ads are illegal in my country, and they, and we, haven't paid sufficient attention to what is transnational marketing by the gun industry using social media. And so that happens in a number of different ways. Of course, gunfluencers on particularly YouTube have enormous followings. Some of them five and a half, 6 1/2 seven and a half million. And when they post, their posts get viewed a million times in a few days, and the cumulative impact of that I think is significant in terms of shaping men's attitudes towards guns and men's orientation to violence and the acceptability of violence. And so those online platforms, you know, are truly transnational in nature.
And I think we're often surprised by the scale of them and so we just recently convened a meeting in Geneva as, as you know, and we had a number of experts on social media marketing of guns and you know, it just kind of blew everyone's mind that, for instance, YouTube has 2 billion monthly active users. That's way more than, you know, some of the main media sources. Certainly platforms like the New York Times or the Washington Post or Le Monde only dream of those sorts of numbers and it's way more than Netflix and platforms like that. And so those spaces are gendered. So young men are more likely to spend time on YouTube. Young women more likely to spend time on TikTok. There is, of course, also the whole world of gaming, which is enormously influential to young people. Particularly young men spend enormous amounts of time playing games that celebrate guns and games that the gun industry has paid the video game producer to, you know, place their weapons prominently and with clear brand visibility in their video games.
And so that's another phenomenon that I think we haven't paid attention to is product placement in videos and in films, Instagram accounts, etc. The world of online media is very poorly regulated. Of course, online spaces are a relatively new phenomenon, so it shouldn't surprise us that we don't yet have in place the regulations that we need. But I think what's become very clear is that those are urgently needed and research on the success of those regulations, the extent to which they used, is urgently needed as well.
Hannah Reinl
I actually only recently heard the word “gunfluencer” for the first time, which is this like neological combination of gun and influencer. And I think just the fact that such a word exists now is already indicative of the problem at hand, right?
Dean Peacock
Yeah. Well, and it's so interesting, right, because, you know, we've got gunfluencers, men and women. And of course, the women are positioned in traditionally sexualised ways. So it's not so much an ad about women having access to guns. It's about the sex appeal of a gun. Although of course, the gun industry is also marketing its weapons to women in other ways. But I think you know if we think about video games and gaming as online phenomena, what also gets lost for many people is that a significant number of the most played video games were in fact produced by the military as training tools, and the military has spent a lot of money on developing video games and using video games very overtly as a tool of military recruitment. So in the US, what are called E players will go into schools, you know, these are military servicemen and women, and they'll go into schools, play video games with students as a way to recruit them, and they do that online as well. And so this use of entertainment to normalise war and to, in some ways, drive profit for the gun industry is, as I say, something that we really need to pay attention to.
Hannah Reinl
I personally find it very hard not to get discouraged in the face of all of this. Looking at the sheer scale and size of the problem and the complexities of it all. So I guess my next, my final question to you is- it has to be - what can we do about all of this? What are some strategic approaches, some policies that have proven effective in Countering the problem. And of course also for our listeners who are international leaders and decision-makers, do you have specific recommendations on what they can do, what they can implement within their sphere of influence?
Dean Peacock
No, I mean look it is a gloomy and sometimes overwhelming topic, right? But I think we've got lots of reasons for optimism. There are lots of angles that we can explore. Nicole Hockley would have talked about the successful case that she and other family members of children who were killed in Sandy Hook brought against Remington for their really exploitative, despicable ad. And a number of other cases have emerged since then that are specific to the marketing practices of the gun industry. And so I think that there is, you know, tremendous inspiration to be found in that kind of emerging body of strategic litigation and I think that we're going to see more and more of those cases that, you know, hit them in their pockets.
I think there's also reason for significant optimism. Optimism in some of the regulations that are now being put forward to govern online spaces and advertising. Over the last two decades as you and your listeners will know, a number of countries, in fact, just over 30, have put in place some kind of regulations that restrict gender stereotypical advertising. So that's the second area of optimism.
Third one is there's growing attention to this in UN spaces. Human Rights Council has, you know, there have been two recent resolutions out of the Human Rights Council looking at civilian acquisition of guns that focus on these gender-exploitative marketing practices. The guiding principles on business and human rights: another place where we can go and strengthen some of our advocacy to make sure that there is attention to this. So that's a third.
And then, I think there's a growing awareness among civil society actors and more generally about these commercial determinants of health and human rights. The WHO has recently set up a new division on commercial determinants of health. And you know, it's mostly been focused on tobacco and alcohol, but guns fit there. And so, I think there will be advocacy in those spaces, in international health spaces to say: if violence is a public health issue which has long been declared to be, then we have to pay attention to these marketing practices and we have to effectively limit access to lethal weapons. So that would be a fourth area.
And to your International Gender Champions, this is an issue that I think there's enormous scope to act on, and I really urge them to use their very significant influence in the corporate sector, in UN spaces and civil society more broadly to advance an ambitious agenda around reducing access to and use of lethal guns and arms.
Hannah Reinl
We love a good call to action at the end. Thanks so much, Dean.
Dean Peacock
Thank you so much, Hannah, thanks for your time.
Hannah Reinl
Part 3 – transition to afterthought
So this is where we left the conversation with Dean Peacock at first. But then Dean had an important afterthought, which I wanted to share with you all, so we hit the recording button again.
Dean Peacock
Afterthought
You know, Hannah I think, we often talk about guns and small arms in kind of abstracted ways, and I think it's really important to connect this issue to the lives that it affects in very, very real ways. I have a sister who has long struggled with, you know, a range of mental health and substance abuse issues. Her life became infinitely harder when she dated a man who had a gun and the violence that she experienced was compounded by the threat that the gun represented right? So this guy would shoot his gun out the bedroom window at animals in the neighborhood, and the message was super, super clear, right? Like, I can do this to these animals. And I can do it to you. And so the fear that guns generate in situations of domestic violence, I think is absolutely enormous and I've heard too many times, including from people here that I'm very close to, of growing up in homes where there was a gun and the gun being cleaned every night and family members being told this is the gun that I'm going to kill you with. This is the gun that I'm going to kill your mother with. And so, guns are not, you know, abstract objects. They generate, you know, an enormous amount of fear precisely because they fundamentally change power dynamics.
Hannah Reinl
Part 3 Outro, after afterthought
With that as a final thought, we will end today’s podcast. Thank you for joining us on this fascinating- and oftentimes shocking- deep dive into the construction of militarised masculinities. And of course a big thank you to our colleagues at WILPF for this collaboration, as well as all to our expert guests. You’ll hear from us again next month, when we will introduce you to another one of our Youth Champions.